Yes but how does this fit in with “ahimsa” in today’s society where we know that the vast majority of flesh foods are derived from factory farmed animals, many subjected to horrendous conditions? Sadly we’re not living in a society that respects and honours animals destined for the food chain; the insatiable greed for vast amounts of cheap meat has resulted in shameful abuse and exploitation. If everyone that ate meat knew its source, the conditions that the animal was raised and slaughtered in and honoured its sacrifice, fair enough, but this is far from the current reality. I’ll stick to my plant-based diet.
This story is from almost 30 yrs ago, long before most ppl including myself knew anything about factory farming. I'm certain if I could've explained to him what we know now that he wouldn't have supported it. This was also in a rural area and it was possible to source small farm, pasture raised animals but that creates its own challenges because if you're too close to the act of killing you cannot eat that meat according to Buddhist tradition. Ultimately, there's no perfection in this world and i promise i can point out a hundred ways that you accidentally support a whole slew of horrific things. For example... Do you buy gasoline for a vehicle? Then you support an oppressive Saudi regime that murders journalists and treats women as property. Do you buy anything made in China? An iPhone? The iPhone factory literally has nets underneath the windows so ppl can't commit suicide because they are tortured sweat shop workers. Do you eat food of any kind? Vegetables even? Oh my goodness, the amount of insects killed in farming is in the trillions. I believe an insect's life is as valuable as an animal's life and i won't even kill a bug intentionally.
Do you see my larger point? You can become a Jain and walk with a broom to sweep away seen and unseen insects to protect them, or wear a mask 24 hours a day so you don't inhale accidentally an innocent creature. There are extremes. My story was about becoming extreme. My teacher cured that inclination. And when his students were cooking meat too frequently he told them to stop it and limit meat consumption because it was too much on the other extreme of seeking out meat. The Buddha taught the Middle Way. Not going to any extremes. Buddhist monks who beg for food, traditionally must accept whatever is offered including animal flesh if that's what they're given. We do our best without becoming fanatics... Fanaticism is a mental disease. I rarely eat animals to this day but I don't flip out about it like i did back then. I'm still perfectly satisfied eating vegan even. I don't need a single animal product. One great master who is mentioned in my Jesus lama story, he wouldn't even eat unfertilized eggs because he said taking the eggs from a chicken makes her sad. My teacher, when we were doing a construction project looked into a large hole where concrete would be poured and he saw a worm above the soil in the hole and he had me go down into the hole to save the worm. We do what we can when we can and let go of the rest. But again, perfection is impossible. 🙏
I understand completely what you’re saying and yes we can only do our best. I agree it’s nigh on impossible to live/function without our actions unwittingly/unknowingly causing harm to others, particularly in this globalised, modern world that we live in. Ignorance is a much easier option somehow; with awareness comes that internal dilemma and unease. I was just really pointing out that modern meat consumption is a whole different kettle of fish to the wholesome, traditional farms that you describe. 🙏🏻
That was an interesting story! I do believe that what you eat isn't a standard for how moralistic or spiritual a person is. Being mindful of what and how you're eating is important, a balance is important as you said. I turned vegetarian as a kid. I was probably 7-8 when I saw my father snap a chicken's head to turn it into our lunch. I cried and couldn't eat and never touched meat again since then. I occasionally eat eggs(some people consider it vegetarian I know) but I try to limit it as much as possible because it does have an environmental impact. At the end, It's a personal choice.
Thank you. The great Swami Vivekananda said in essence that it's more important what comes out of your mouth than what goes in it.
The great Chatral Rinpoche mentioned here didn't eat eggs because it made the chickens sad when their eggs were taken from them. So he was concerned not just for their physical lives but also their emotional well-being. So sweet. I've known a number of his close disciples over the years and one of them really struggled hard to be vegetarian and the egg thing was a bridge too far for him. He is Tibetan and he said he could either give up alcohol or meat but not both. Ultimately what I came to understand about myself related to any religious obligations or disciplines was not to be fanatical or overly rigid. It's pretty widely accepted that the Buddha himself, who accepted offerings of food from ppl would not turn away any food item, including meat. The main emphasis is to be as far from the act of killing as possible. Traditionally 3 degrees of separation is required to avoid the karmic result of complicity in killing the animal. One Lama I know was in Bodh Gaya and eating dinner at one of the Tibetan tent restaurants. He happened to be outside at the moment the animal was slaughtered for his dinner and he became vegetarian at that moment.
A Lama said to me when I was in my twenties, "You know what your problem is? You want to be perfect."
A useful criticism at the time. Calling out my rigidity.
Sure thing! It’s amazing how Swami Vivekananda’s message reminds us that what we say and how we treat others is more important than strict rules about what we eat. And the story about Chatral Rinpoche is so sweet—caring for the chickens’ feelings shows such deep compassion, not just for their lives but for their emotions too. It’s interesting how his student found it tough to follow the egg rule.
Your point about not being too rigid is something I really get. Sometimes, trying to be perfect or follow every rule can get in the way of finding peace. The Buddha accepting all food offered to him, including meat, shows that it’s more about the intention and staying distant from causing harm.
I love how you shared the Lama’s advice about wanting to be perfect. It’s a great reminder that we can strive for balance and kindness without being too hard on ourselves. Thanks for sharing these stories—they're really relatable and down-to-earth!
Yes but how does this fit in with “ahimsa” in today’s society where we know that the vast majority of flesh foods are derived from factory farmed animals, many subjected to horrendous conditions? Sadly we’re not living in a society that respects and honours animals destined for the food chain; the insatiable greed for vast amounts of cheap meat has resulted in shameful abuse and exploitation. If everyone that ate meat knew its source, the conditions that the animal was raised and slaughtered in and honoured its sacrifice, fair enough, but this is far from the current reality. I’ll stick to my plant-based diet.
This story is from almost 30 yrs ago, long before most ppl including myself knew anything about factory farming. I'm certain if I could've explained to him what we know now that he wouldn't have supported it. This was also in a rural area and it was possible to source small farm, pasture raised animals but that creates its own challenges because if you're too close to the act of killing you cannot eat that meat according to Buddhist tradition. Ultimately, there's no perfection in this world and i promise i can point out a hundred ways that you accidentally support a whole slew of horrific things. For example... Do you buy gasoline for a vehicle? Then you support an oppressive Saudi regime that murders journalists and treats women as property. Do you buy anything made in China? An iPhone? The iPhone factory literally has nets underneath the windows so ppl can't commit suicide because they are tortured sweat shop workers. Do you eat food of any kind? Vegetables even? Oh my goodness, the amount of insects killed in farming is in the trillions. I believe an insect's life is as valuable as an animal's life and i won't even kill a bug intentionally.
Do you see my larger point? You can become a Jain and walk with a broom to sweep away seen and unseen insects to protect them, or wear a mask 24 hours a day so you don't inhale accidentally an innocent creature. There are extremes. My story was about becoming extreme. My teacher cured that inclination. And when his students were cooking meat too frequently he told them to stop it and limit meat consumption because it was too much on the other extreme of seeking out meat. The Buddha taught the Middle Way. Not going to any extremes. Buddhist monks who beg for food, traditionally must accept whatever is offered including animal flesh if that's what they're given. We do our best without becoming fanatics... Fanaticism is a mental disease. I rarely eat animals to this day but I don't flip out about it like i did back then. I'm still perfectly satisfied eating vegan even. I don't need a single animal product. One great master who is mentioned in my Jesus lama story, he wouldn't even eat unfertilized eggs because he said taking the eggs from a chicken makes her sad. My teacher, when we were doing a construction project looked into a large hole where concrete would be poured and he saw a worm above the soil in the hole and he had me go down into the hole to save the worm. We do what we can when we can and let go of the rest. But again, perfection is impossible. 🙏
I understand completely what you’re saying and yes we can only do our best. I agree it’s nigh on impossible to live/function without our actions unwittingly/unknowingly causing harm to others, particularly in this globalised, modern world that we live in. Ignorance is a much easier option somehow; with awareness comes that internal dilemma and unease. I was just really pointing out that modern meat consumption is a whole different kettle of fish to the wholesome, traditional farms that you describe. 🙏🏻
Wonderful.
That was an interesting story! I do believe that what you eat isn't a standard for how moralistic or spiritual a person is. Being mindful of what and how you're eating is important, a balance is important as you said. I turned vegetarian as a kid. I was probably 7-8 when I saw my father snap a chicken's head to turn it into our lunch. I cried and couldn't eat and never touched meat again since then. I occasionally eat eggs(some people consider it vegetarian I know) but I try to limit it as much as possible because it does have an environmental impact. At the end, It's a personal choice.
Thank you. The great Swami Vivekananda said in essence that it's more important what comes out of your mouth than what goes in it.
The great Chatral Rinpoche mentioned here didn't eat eggs because it made the chickens sad when their eggs were taken from them. So he was concerned not just for their physical lives but also their emotional well-being. So sweet. I've known a number of his close disciples over the years and one of them really struggled hard to be vegetarian and the egg thing was a bridge too far for him. He is Tibetan and he said he could either give up alcohol or meat but not both. Ultimately what I came to understand about myself related to any religious obligations or disciplines was not to be fanatical or overly rigid. It's pretty widely accepted that the Buddha himself, who accepted offerings of food from ppl would not turn away any food item, including meat. The main emphasis is to be as far from the act of killing as possible. Traditionally 3 degrees of separation is required to avoid the karmic result of complicity in killing the animal. One Lama I know was in Bodh Gaya and eating dinner at one of the Tibetan tent restaurants. He happened to be outside at the moment the animal was slaughtered for his dinner and he became vegetarian at that moment.
A Lama said to me when I was in my twenties, "You know what your problem is? You want to be perfect."
A useful criticism at the time. Calling out my rigidity.
Sure thing! It’s amazing how Swami Vivekananda’s message reminds us that what we say and how we treat others is more important than strict rules about what we eat. And the story about Chatral Rinpoche is so sweet—caring for the chickens’ feelings shows such deep compassion, not just for their lives but for their emotions too. It’s interesting how his student found it tough to follow the egg rule.
Your point about not being too rigid is something I really get. Sometimes, trying to be perfect or follow every rule can get in the way of finding peace. The Buddha accepting all food offered to him, including meat, shows that it’s more about the intention and staying distant from causing harm.
I love how you shared the Lama’s advice about wanting to be perfect. It’s a great reminder that we can strive for balance and kindness without being too hard on ourselves. Thanks for sharing these stories—they're really relatable and down-to-earth!
A rare story of medium length, and well done. Just like steak. Thanks for this.